Catalunya y España: 5 Posibles Finales

fdbetancor dijo:
Dear Mssrs Abraham and Valmont,

You have made some critiques of my article to which I feel justified in responding:

1. I am not a secessionist, I am an American; learn the difference;
2. I don't see how my analysis can be said to support secession. For one thing, I explicitly disclaim at the beginning any support for or against the arguments of either side. For another, I think the conclusions I draw are rather more disheartening than otherwise;
3. I call myself an economist because that is what the university from which I graduated calls me. If you have an issue with it, take it up with them;
4. In my life, I have been an entrepreneur, and met with both success and failure. I have also served my country in the Armed Forces. It's called experience: most people value it;
5. I offer a methodological framework for conflict analysis, a contribution I have not found in any literature or studies on the situation by either side in the Catalonia debate. Like any construct dealing with future events, it inevitably requires the application of probabilities. Furthermore, as secessions don't happen every week, the use of personal criteria for setting those estimates is both legitimate and widely accepted. If you have a crystal ball that grants you perfect foresight, please lend it to me: I'd like to spend a week in Vegas;
6. You are justified in disagreeing with both the outcomes and the probabilities that I assign, but no, I did not "pull them out my ass" as you so charmingly suggest. I have given what I consider to be sufficient and considered reasons - if you had gotten beyond the introduction you might have come to them;
7. You criticize that my work is reproduced in Vilaweb. They are free to do so as long as they cite it as original work of mine. I have been published in other respectable venues, both digital and print, under the same conditions: but be clear that the work is my own, not under commission by Vilaweb or anyone else. If you choose not to read it, then do not: Marca awaits;
8. Finally, I a happy to have a civilized discussion with anyone on any topic using reason and logic. Personal attacks and snide aspersions, like yours, are contemptible. I find them to usually be the refuge of fanaticism, intolerance or ignorance. Take your pick.

I remain, sir, yours,

Fernando Betancor
Hacer clic para expandir...

I'll bite and assume you have been led to this forum by other users, and that you truly are the author of the "article" we're discussing.

1) Your country of origin has nothing to do with your more than obvious political opinions. Calling you a "secessionist" doesn't imply you are not American, just as it doesn't imply you like vegan food, or Mediterranean sunsets. Nationality and agenda are not related.

Learn the difference.

2) Your opinions are extremely biased. First of all, in this (and other) articles you clearly assume what Catalonia wants. You ALWAYS imply that our land is of one mind, of one opinion. Which is, of course, completely untrue. As it has been explained DOZENS of times, secession implies exiting the EU (as confirmed by the highest European authorities themselves), and after this confirmation, polls show that LESS than 50% of voters would still go for secession.

Also, 80ish percent of all potential voters admit that they have no real information about what the Generalitat has planned regarding pensions, unemployment benefits, external debt and other CRUCIAL aspects of creating a new country out of thin air.

Want to know why? Because their hearts and minds are not on the task. Because it's just a big smokescreen, propaganda 101.

Are you aware that less than 2 years ago, members of the Catalonian parliament had to be carried away by helicopter and police officers when the people of Catalonia laid siege to the building? Weeks after that, this whole affair was "launched". Suddenly, Spain is to blame for all our economical problems.

An external enemy, dependable and convenient, which allows those same crooks to keep pushing their corrupt and unbearable agenda without opposition. Now, suddenly, all that matters is "what Spain does to us", and nobody talks about new taxes, regional debt, rampant corruption and closed hospitals anymore.

3) There's a difference between holding a degree and having a profession. A degree in Biology doesn't make you a biologist. Unfortunately for you, your college years haven't actually prepared you or given you the appropiate insight required to understand what, for you, is foreign politics. You jump to conclusions far too quickly, and them being the "right" conclussions, you were suddenly given 15 minutes of fame by one of the most ridiculed "information" sites in Spain. One that shames itself each and every single day. Laughing stock for the whole country.

4) I am also an entrepreneur. A successful one, by the way. And your being deployed with the military means as much as your favourite salad dressing brand, when it comes to Catalonia and its relationship with the rest of Spain.

5) For my own analysis, I refrain from random percentages, specially those which might imply I'll get owned later on. In your article, you directly assign ZERO probability to a scenario in which Catalonia stays with Spain.

I have experience in creating, mantaining and leading a company in Catalonia. I have experience in dealing with Catalonian authorities. Many would say that this experience is, when all is said and done, rather more useful than being deployed in Afghanistan or wherever you were sent and which, frankly, is completely unrelated to the topic at hand.

Aaaaaand there goes your credibility. Did your analysis include anything about the debt of Catalonia, who holds the majority of it (hint: the Spanish government), how Catalonia has been unable to pay for unemployment benefits for the last three years, how Catalonia has sucked up most of the State Fund stablished to support regions in need, how Catalonia has developed a vast net of corrupt public companies in the middle of the crisis that are contributing to our ruin, or how Catalonia IS in fact the Spanish region with more pensionists and more subsidies?

No? I thought so.

You compared the last Diada to Ukraine, and the article became even more of a joke.

6) You assign ZERO probability to Catalonia staying within Spain. With nothing to support your opinion. Thus the expression "pulling it out of your ass" is fully justified.

7) Your words prove that you are not familiar with Vilaweb. I truly, deeply pity you.

I did read the article, of course. And no, I'm not into football, nor have I read this Marca in my entire life.

I can see you've been hurt. If you'd like to resort to petty stereotypes, I have a few for both Americans and Uruguayans, mind you. Do you really want to go there, Mr. Economist?

8) I pick intolerance. Not the kind you assume, of course. I have several very dear friends who support secession (something I have no problem with) and even believe it's possible as of today (which I don't, mainly for economical reasons). I also have a certain degree of appreciation for some users of Burbuja who are clearly pro-secession, but who are fun, rational and fair.

My intolerance is projected onto pompous analysts who pretend that experience on any particular field (read: the military) gives them plenty of leeway for things like your article.

Your former endeavors miccionan nothing. Military? Toy maker? Big deal. You are just a random American citizen who went to College and published something that Vilaweb liked.

They truly are desperate in their search for something that might counter the words of OFFICIAL European representatives. Like

EUROPA - PRESS RELEASES - Press release - Vice-President Reding's Remarks on Catalan independence

In yet another display of simplicity and naiveness, all they could find was what you wrote. Which is not much and not nearly enough.

Don't take it personally, but you just don't cut it.

Best regards.
 
Última edición:
El muy prepotente viene y postea en inglés, con dos huevones, en un foro claramente español cuyas normas indican que, al menos, hay que incluir un resumen en español.

O aprendes español o te vas a un foro en inglés.

---------- Post added 24-abr-2014 at 11:18 ----------
fdbetancor dijo:
Dear Mssrs Abraham and Valmont,

You have made some critiques of my article to which I feel justified in responding:

1. I am not a secessionist, I am an American; learn the difference;
2. I don't see how my analysis can be said to support secession. For one thing, I explicitly disclaim at the beginning any support for or against the arguments of either side. For another, I think the conclusions I draw are rather more disheartening than otherwise;
3. I call myself an economist because that is what the university from which I graduated calls me. If you have an issue with it, take it up with them;
4. In my life, I have been an entrepreneur, and met with both success and failure. I have also served my country in the Armed Forces. It's called experience: most people value it;
5. I offer a methodological framework for conflict analysis, a contribution I have not found in any literature or studies on the situation by either side in the Catalonia debate. Like any construct dealing with future events, it inevitably requires the application of probabilities. Furthermore, as secessions don't happen every week, the use of personal criteria for setting those estimates is both legitimate and widely accepted. If you have a crystal ball that grants you perfect foresight, please lend it to me: I'd like to spend a week in Vegas;
6. You are justified in disagreeing with both the outcomes and the probabilities that I assign, but no, I did not "pull them out my ass" as you so charmingly suggest. I have given what I consider to be sufficient and considered reasons - if you had gotten beyond the introduction you might have come to them;
7. You criticize that my work is reproduced in Vilaweb. They are free to do so as long as they cite it as original work of mine. I have been published in other respectable venues, both digital and print, under the same conditions: but be clear that the work is my own, not under commission by Vilaweb or anyone else. If you choose not to read it, then do not: Marca awaits;
8. Finally, I a happy to have a civilized discussion with anyone on any topic using reason and logic. Personal attacks and snide aspersions, like yours, are contemptible. I find them to usually be the refuge of fanaticism, intolerance or ignorance. Take your pick.

I remain, sir, yours,

Fernando Betancor
Hacer clic para expandir...


Esto es un foro en español, con unas normas claras respecto al idioma en que se postea.

No tengo problema en leer inglés -y escribirlo- y nunca se me ocurriría ir a un foro en inglés a postear en español. Por educación y tal.

Por cierto, su artículo me parece una cosa ;)
 
Se te olvida un final.

Vamos a dividir la region catalana, una parte de Cataluña es española, y la queremos, asi como una parte de catalanes son españoles, y no los vamos a abandonar, si hay que partir cataluña en dos, se parte, pero la parte española,se queda en españa.
 
fdbetancor dijo:
Dear Mssrs Abraham and Valmont,

You have made some critiques of my article to which I feel justified in responding:

1. I am not a secessionist, I am an American; learn the difference;
2. I don't see how my analysis can be said to support secession. For one thing, I explicitly disclaim at the beginning any support for or against the arguments of either side. For another, I think the conclusions I draw are rather more disheartening than otherwise;
3. I call myself an economist because that is what the university from which I graduated calls me. If you have an issue with it, take it up with them;
4. In my life, I have been an entrepreneur, and met with both success and failure. I have also served my country in the Armed Forces. It's called experience: most people value it;
5. I offer a methodological framework for conflict analysis, a contribution I have not found in any literature or studies on the situation by either side in the Catalonia debate. Like any construct dealing with future events, it inevitably requires the application of probabilities. Furthermore, as secessions don't happen every week, the use of personal criteria for setting those estimates is both legitimate and widely accepted. If you have a crystal ball that grants you perfect foresight, please lend it to me: I'd like to spend a week in Vegas;
6. You are justified in disagreeing with both the outcomes and the probabilities that I assign, but no, I did not "pull them out my ass" as you so charmingly suggest. I have given what I consider to be sufficient and considered reasons - if you had gotten beyond the introduction you might have come to them;
7. You criticize that my work is reproduced in Vilaweb. They are free to do so as long as they cite it as original work of mine. I have been published in other respectable venues, both digital and print, under the same conditions: but be clear that the work is my own, not under commission by Vilaweb or anyone else. If you choose not to read it, then do not: Marca awaits;
8. Finally, I a happy to have a civilized discussion with anyone on any topic using reason and logic. Personal attacks and snide aspersions, like yours, are contemptible. I find them to usually be the refuge of fanaticism, intolerance or ignorance. Take your pick.

I remain, sir, yours,

Fernando Betancor
Hacer clic para expandir...

Tu inglés es sólo ligeramente superior al de Ana Botella.

No hard feelings.
 
Echando un vistazo a su Twitter

https://twitter.com/fdbetancor

la persona que dice que "él es americano, no secesionista" :)roto2:) se permite el lujo de colgar vídeos sobre el CONFLICTO SECRETO (literalmente) catalán.

Aquí la foto del amigo. Por cierto, para los posibles LDKs que le aplaudirían con las orejas, es un supuesto valedor del liberalismo económico, y otras cosas que a los de ERC o las CUP les debería dar urticaria, y tal.

896b95a38b3125a541e3d0b0ffc37721_400x400.jpeg


También habla de que "se acaban las opciones para mantener España unida", y que "Artur Más no tenía alternativas", e incluso (atención) dice que la única posibilidad de mantener España unida es que gane el Mundial:
Perhaps Mr. Rajoy is praying for a Spanish victory in this summer's World Cup. That appears to be the only circumstance that could save the integrity of the Spanish state.
Hacer clic para expandir...

PEDAZO de analista mundial. Sus miles y mi...ochenta y seis seguidores en Twitter tienen que devorar cada una de sus palabras.

Abril parece ser su mes de fomentar el nacionalismo tal y como lo entiende CiU, sin pudor ninguno. Varios artículos al respecto. Y viendo que son lo ÚNICO que escribe que recibe la más mínima atención, dad por hecho que habrá más.

De algo hay que comer, ¿eh señor Betancor?
 
Pero si es el memo más petulante y se cree sabio.
Entrar en un foro de habla española y colgar un texto en inglés ya es ridículo.
Seguro que está el tipo buscando con google temas donde se le mencione para rellenar su currículo.

---------- Post added 24-abr-2014 at 13:31 ----------

Fernando Betancor es ''americano''?
El apellido es de origen francés Betancourt castellanizado en Canarias solo a medias.
Mucho glamour trae en tipejo si hubiera colgao el texto en francés de la Martinica.
 
Abraham dijo:
Echando un vistazo a su Twitter

https://twitter.com/fdbetancor

la persona que dice que "él es americano, no secesionista" :)roto2:) se permite el lujo de colgar vídeos sobre el CONFLICTO SECRETO (literalmente) catalán.

Aquí la foto del amigo. Por cierto, para los posibles LDKs que le aplaudirían con las orejas, es un supuesto valedor del liberalismo económico, y otras cosas que a los de ERC o las CUP les debería dar urticaria, y tal.

896b95a38b3125a541e3d0b0ffc37721_400x400.jpeg


También habla de que "se acaban las opciones para mantener España unida", y que "Artur Más no tenía alternativas", e incluso (atención) dice que la única posibilidad de mantener España unida es que gane el Mundial:


PEDAZO de analista mundial. Sus miles y mi...ochenta y seis seguidores en Twitter tienen que devorar cada una de sus palabras.

Abril parece ser su mes de fomentar el nacionalismo tal y como lo entiende CiU, sin pudor ninguno. Varios artículos al respecto. Y viendo que son lo ÚNICO que escribe que recibe la más mínima atención, dad por hecho que habrá más.

De algo hay que comer, ¿eh señor Betancor?
Hacer clic para expandir...

annamaria dijo:
Pero si es el memo más petulante y se cree sabio.
Entrar en un foro de habla española y colgar un texto en inglés ya es ridículo.
Seguro que está el tipo buscando con google temas donde se le mencione para rellenar su currículo.

---------- Post added 24-abr-2014 at 13:31 ----------

Fernando Betancor es ''americano''?
El apellido es de origen francés Betancourt castellanizado en Canarias solo a medias.
Mucho glamour trae en tipejo si hubiera colgao el texto en francés de la Martinica.
Hacer clic para expandir...

El_Consul dijo:
Las personas que llevan la raya al medio no son de fiar.

Que lo se yo.
Hacer clic para expandir...



Parece que lo que se trata es intentar descalificar mediante insultos como es habitual en este foro. ¿O no?
 
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