Dejad de usar Braveheart como fuente para vuestras opiniones sobre Escocia

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No paro de ver fotos de Braveheart y estoy seguro que el 90% de los foreros hispanistanos se basan en esta película para intentar explicar la situación en Escocia. Pues buen, os contaré un secreto, prácticamente no tiene nada que ver con la historia real. De hecho, quedó en el segundo puesto en el listado de películas históricas más erróneas.

In 2009, the film was second on a list of "most historically inaccurate movies" in The Times.

De hecho:

"The events aren't accurate, the dates aren't accurate, the characters aren't accurate, the names aren't accurate, the clothes aren't accurate—in short, just about nothing is accurate."

Los hechos no son correctos, las fechas no son correctas, los personajes no son correctos, los nombres no son correctos, las ropas no son correctas. En resumen, prácticamente nada es correcto.

Sí que existió un William Wallace pero no era un "campesino" si no un noble, y la historia es mucho menos heróica que en la película.

Las ropas y la falda escocesa no existían en el 1200, de hecho no surgieron hasta 400 años más tarde. Los irlandeses jamás lucharon junto a los escoceses en esa época. Y demás mentiras, la lista es interminable. La pego abajo.

Espero que no haya una buena parte del voto del Sí motivado por la película, porque demostraría que los propios escoceses no conocen su historia.

Braveheart - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Historical inaccuracy

Randall Wallace, the writer of the screenplay, has acknowledged Blind Harry's 15th century epic poem The Acts and Deeds of Sir William Wallace, Knight of Elderslie as a major inspiration for the film.[25] In defending his script, Randall Wallace has said, "Is Blind Harry true? I don't know. I know that it spoke to my heart and that's what matters to me, that it spoke to my heart."[25] Blind Harry's poem is not now regarded as historically accurate, and although some incidents in the film which are not historically accurate are taken from Blind Harry (e.g. the hanging of Scots nobles at the start) there are large parts which are based neither on history nor Blind Harry (e.g. Wallace's affair with Princess Isabelle). In addition, the film portrays the battle of Bannockburn as an unplanned, spontaneous final stand when in fact it was a planned and organised battle which was won by Robert the Bruce.

Elizabeth Ewan describes Braveheart as a film which "almost totally sacrifices historical accuracy for epic adventure".[26] The "brave heart" refers in Scottish history to that of Robert the Bruce, and an attribution by William Edmondstoune Aytoun, in his poem Heart of Bruce, to Sir James the Good Douglas: "Pass thee first, thou dauntless heart, As thou wert wont of yore!", prior to Douglas's demise at the Battle of Teba in Andalusia.[27]

Sharon Krossa notes that the film contains numerous historical errors, beginning with the wearing of belted plaid by Wallace and his men. In that period "no Scots ... wore belted plaids (let alone kilts of any kind)."[28] Moreover, when Highlanders finally did begin wearing the belted plaid, it was not "in the rather bizarre style depicted in the film."[28] She compares the inaccuracy to "a film about Colonial America showing the colonial men wearing 20th century business suits, but with the jackets worn back-to-front instead of the right way around."[28] "The events aren't accurate, the dates aren't accurate, the characters aren't accurate, the names aren't accurate, the clothes aren't accurate—in short, just about nothing is accurate."[29] The belted plaid (feileadh mór léine) was not introduced until the 16th century.[30] Peter Traquair has referred to Wallace's "farcical representation as a wild and hairy highlander painted with woad (1,000 years too late) running amok in a tartan kilt (500 years too early)." [31]

In 2009, the film was second on a list of "most historically inaccurate movies" in The Times.[2] In the 2007 humorous non-fictional historiography An Utterly Impartial History of Britain, author John O'Farrell notes that Braveheart could not have been more historically inaccurate, even if a "Plasticine dog" had been inserted in the film and the title changed to William Wallace and Gromit.[32]

Randall Wallace has defended his script from historians who have dismissed the film as a Hollywood perversion of actual events.[citation needed] In the DVD audio commentary of Braveheart, Mel Gibson acknowledges many of the historical inaccuracies[citation needed] but defends his choices as director, noting that the way events were portrayed in the film was much more "cinematically compelling" than the historical fact or conventional mythos.

Jus Primae Noctis

Edward Longshanks, King of England, is shown invoking the right of Jus Primae Noctis, allowing the Lord of a medieval estate to take the virginity of his serfs' maiden daughters. Critical medieval scholarship regards this supposed right as a myth, "the simple reason why we are dealing with a myth here rests in the surprising fact that practically all writers who make any such claims have never been able or willing to cite any trustworthy source, if they have any."[33][34]

Occupation and independence

The film suggests Scotland had been under English occupation for some time, at least during Wallace’s childhood, and in the run-up to the Battle of Falkirk Wallace says to the younger Bruce “we can have what we never had before; a country of our own”. In fact Scotland had been invaded by England only the year before Wallace's rebellion; prior to the death of King Alexander III it had been a fully separate kingdom.[31]

Portrayal of William Wallace

As John Shelton Lawrence and Robert Jewett write, "Because [William] Wallace is one of Scotland's most important national heroes and because he lived in the very distant past, much that is believed about him is probably the stuff of legend. But there is a factual strand that historians agree to", summarized from Scots scholar Matt Ewart:

Wallace was born into the gentry of Scotland; his father lived until he was 18, his mother until his 24th year; he killed the sheriff of Lanark when he was 27, apparently after the murder of his wife; he led a group of commoners against the English in a very successful battle at Stirling in 1297, temporarily receiving appointment as guardian; Wallace's reputation as a military leader was ruined in the same year of 1297, leading to his resignation as guardian; he spent several years of exile in France before being captured by the English at Glasgow, this resulting in his trial for treason and his cruel execution.[35]

A.E. Christa Canitz writes about the historical William Wallace further: "[He] was a younger son of the Scottish gentry, usually accompanied by his own chaplain, well-educated, and eventually, having been appointed Guardian of the Kingdom of Scotland, engaged in diplomatic correspondence with the Hanseatic cities of Lübeck and Hamburg". She finds that in Braveheart, "any hint of his descent from the lowland gentry (i.e., the lesser nobility) is erased, and he is presented as an economically and politically marginalized Highlander and 'a farmer'—as one with the common peasant, and with a strong spiritual connection to the land which he is destined to liberate."[36]

Colin McArthur writes that Braveheart "constructs Wallace as a kind of modern, nationalist guerrilla leader in a period half a millennium before the appearance of nationalism on the historical stage as a concept under which disparate classes and interests might be mobilised within a nation state." Writing about Braveheart's "omissions of verified historical facts", McArthur notes that Wallace made "overtures to Edward I seeking less severe treatment after his defeat at Falkirk", as well as "the well-documented fact of Wallace's having resorted to conscription and his willingness to hang those who refused to serve."[37] Canitz posits that depicting "such lack of class solidarity" as the conscriptions and related hangings "would contaminate the movie's image of Wallace as the jovenlandesally irreproachable primus inter pares among his peasant fighters."[36]

Portrayal of Isabella of France

Isabella of France is shown having an affair with Wallace prior to the Battle of Falkirk. She later tells Edward I that she is pregnant, implying that her son, Edward III, was a product of the affair. In reality, Isabella was three years old and living in France at the time of the Battle of Falkirk, was not married to Edward II until he was already king, and Edward III was born seven years after Wallace died.[38][39] (This aspect of the plot may however have been inspired by the play The Wallace: a triumph in five acts by Sydney Goodsir Smith, which unhistorically has Isabella present at the Battle of Falkirk longing for a "real man".)

At that time it would also have been unusual to send a woman on a diplomatic mission into a war zone, and she would have been risking imprisonment or execution by admitting that she was carrying a child which was not her husband's. (See the Tour de Nesle Affair and the fate of two of Henry VIII's wives.)

Portrayal of Robert the Bruce

Mel Gibson as William Wallace wearing woad.
Robert the Bruce did change sides between the Scots loyalists and the English more than once in the earlier stages of the Wars of Scottish Independence, but he never betrayed Wallace directly, and he probably did not fight on the English side at the Battle of Falkirk (although this claim is made by one important mediaeval source, John of Fordun's chronicle). Later, the Battle of Bannockburn was not a spontaneous battle; he had already been fighting a guerrilla campaign against the English for eight years.[31] His title before becoming king was Earl of Carrick, not Earl of Bruce.

Portrayal of Longshanks and Prince Edward

The actual Edward I was ruthless and temperamental, but the film exaggerates his character for effect. Edward enjoyed poetry and harp music, was a devoted and loving husband to his wife Eleanor of Castile, and as a religious man he gave generously to charity. The film's scene where he scoffs cynically at Isabella for distributing gold to the poor after Wallace refuses it as a bribe would have been unlikely. Edward died on campaign and not in bed at his home.[31]

The depiction of the future Edward II as an effeminate gays drew accusations of homophobia against Gibson.

We cut a scene out, unfortunately. . . where you really got to know that character [Edward II] and to understand his plight and his pain. . . . But it just stopped the film in the first act so much that you thought, 'When's this story going to start?'[40][better source needed]

The actual Edward II, who fathered five children by two different women, was rumoured to have had sensual affairs with men, including Piers Gaveston who lived on into the reign of Edward II. The Prince's male lover Phillip was loosely based on Piers Gaveston.

Gibson defended his depiction of Prince Edward as weak and ineffectual, saying,

I'm just trying to respond to history. You can cite other examples – Alexander the Great, for example, who conquered the entire world, was also a gays. But this story isn't about Alexander the Great. It's about Edward II.[41]

In response to Longshank's defenestration of the Prince's male lover Phillip, Gibson replied that "The fact that King Edward throws this character out a window has nothing to do with him being lgtb ... He's terrible to his son, to everybody."[42] Gibson asserted that the reason that Longshanks kills his son's lover is because the king is a "psychopath".[43] Gibson expressed bewilderment that some filmgoers would laugh at this murder.

Wallace's military campaign

The reference to "MacGregors from the next glen" joining Wallace shortly after the action at Lanark is dubious, since it is questionable whether Clan Gregor existed at that stage, and when they did emerge their traditional home was Glen Orchy, some distance from Lanark.[44]

Wallace did win an important victory at the Battle of Stirling Bridge, but the version in Braveheart is highly inaccurate, as it was filmed without a bridge (and without Andrew jovenlandesay, joint commander of the Scots army, who was fatally injured in the battle). Later, Wallace did carry out a large-scale raid into the north of England, but he did not get as far south as York, nor did he kill Longshanks' nephew.[31] (However this was not as wide off the mark as Blind Harry, who has Wallace making it to the outskirts of London, and only refraining from attacking the city after an appeal by the Mayor's wife.)

The "Irish conscripts" at the Battle of Falkirk are also unhistorical, there were no Irish troops at Falkirk (although many of the English army were actually Welsh) and it is anachronistic to refer to conscripts in the Middle Ages (although there were feudal levies).[31]

Accusations of Anglophobia

Sections of the English media accused the film of harbouring Anglophobia. The Economist called it "xenophobic"[45] and John Sutherland writing in The Guardian stated that: "Braveheart gave full rein to a toxic Anglophobia".[46][47][48] According to The Times, MacArthur said "the political effects are truly pernicious. It’s a xenophobic film."[47] The Independent has noted, "The Braveheart phenomenon, a Hollywood-inspired rise in Scottish nationalism, has been linked to a rise in anti-English prejudice".[49] Contemporary Scottish writer and commentator Douglas Murray has described the film as "strangely racist and anti-English".[50]

Aquí os dejo una imagen del noble Wallace, no tiene el mismo aspecto que el heróico campesino sucio y lleno de sangre:

William_wallace.jpg
 
Escocia: un país ocupado por Inglaterra o por que la consulta si se justifica

Escocia, en los tiempos de la infecciosa Inglaterra protestante, es una historia de acoso, destrucción, conspiración y derribo contra dicho reino. Un resumen de los grandes sucesos que describen como Escocia sucumbió a Inglaterra o como justifican una Escocia libre.

Comenzamos con el ejecución del rey de Escocia Carlos I (que heredó también la de Inglaterra) y la destrucción institucional de Escocia:

Scotland under the Commonwealth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

After the execution of Charles I in 1649, the Scots declared his son king as Charles II. The English responded with an invasion led by Oliver Cromwell, resulting in defeats for the Scots at Dunbar and then at Worcester, opening the way for the English conquest of the country. Under the Tender of Union Scotland was declared part of a Commonwealth with England and Ireland in 1652, but despite repeated attempts, an act was not passed in Westminster to ratify the union until 1657. Under the terms of the union the Scots gained 30 members of parliament, but many posts were not filled, or fell to English agents of the government, and had very little say at Westminster. Initially the government was run by eight commissioners and adopted a policy of undermining the political power of the nobility in favour of the "meaner sort". From 1655 it was replaced by a new Council of Scotland, headed by Irish peer Lord Broghill, and began to attempt to win over the traditional landholders. The regime built a series of major citadels and minor forts at immense cost. The Scottish legal system was suspended, but some courts and institutions were gradually restored. Generally the regime was successful in enforcing law and order and suppressing banditry. There was a major Royalist rising in the Highlands in 1653–55 led by William Cunningham, Earl of Glencairn and John Middleton. After initial success, it suffered from internal divisions and petered out after defeat at the Battle of Dalnaspidal in 1654.

Una sangrienta revolución que no solo significo un autentico genocidio contra los irlandeses. Pero la infiltración y la infección de las instituciones escocesas y un autentico acoso a los escoceses que se resistían a la oleada turística.

Una Escocia ya infestada en su poder tendría que soportar otra canallada de tu amado imperio Ingles:

Revolución Gloriosa - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre

Revolución Gloriosa
Para la revolución española denominada «La Gloriosa», véase Revolución de 1868.
La Revolución Gloriosa (en inglés, Glorious Revolution), también llamada la Revolución de 1688, fue el derrocamiento de Jacobo II en 1688 por una unión de Parlamentarios y el Estatúder holandés Guillermo de Orange. Algunas veces también se llama la Revolución Incruenta, aunque hubo combates y pérdidas de vidas humanas en Irlanda y Escocia.

Los historiadores católicos y tories prefieren el término «Revolución de 1688», ya que «Gloriosa» o «Incruenta» reflejarían los prejuicios de los historiadores whig.2 La Revolución está fuertemente asociada con los sucesos de la Guerra de los Nueve Años de la Europa Continental, y se puede ver como la última oleada turística con éxito de Inglaterra.3
...
De Derde Engelse Oorlog werd definitief "Glorious Revolution" (glorieuze revolutie) genoemd.'"(La Tercera Guerra Inglesa fue decidida finalmente mediante la incursión de un ejército holandés [aunque tuviese un porcentaje alto de mercenarios bajo el mando de Guillermo III, con la invitación de muchos nobles ingleses. El consiguiente cambio en el poder se llama la "Revolución Gloriosa" en Gran Bretaña.")Extracto de De Geschiedenis van de Nederlanden, J.C.H. Blom y E. Lamberts. Publicado por HBuitgevers, 2001.
...
Levantamientos jacobitas

Jacobo había cultivado el apoyo de los bordes de sus Tres Reinos - en la Católica Irlanda y las Highlands de Escocia. Los seguidores de Jacobo, conocidos como jacobitas, estaban preparados para resistir lo que veían como un golpe ilegal mediante la fuerza de las armas. Un levantamiento se produjo en Escocia en apoyo de Jacobo en 1689, la Primera rebelión jacobita, dirigida por John Graham de Claverhouse, conocido como "Bonnie Dundee", que levantó un ejército de clanes de las Highlands. En Irlanda, los católicos locales dirigidos por Richard Talbot, I conde de Tyrconnell, que había sido discriminado por anteriores monarcas ingleses, tomó todos los lugares fortificados del reino excepto Derry, para conservar el reino para Jacobo.

...

Los sucesos de 1688 y sus consecuencias pueden verse de esta manera como más un golpe de Estado, conseguido por la fuerza de las armas, que una auténtica revolución. Muchos, particularmente en Irlanda y Escocia, continuaron viendo a los Estuardo como los monarcas legítimos de los Tres Reinos, y hubo aún más rebeliones jacobitas en Escocia, en 1715 y 1745.

En una Escocia ya infestada por el poder Ingles sus agentes y una Escocia dividida, no es extraño que no le quedara aceptar la union con Inglaterra:

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acta_de_Unión_(1707)

El triunfo de los unionistas en el Parlamento de Escocia debe ser atribuido más a la falta de cohesión, debilidad y desidia entre las facciones contrarias a la unificación. Los votos combinados del partido de la Corte (a favor del Acta) ayudados de los votos del Squadrone Volante («escuadrón volador») fueron suficientes para asegurar la aprobación final de la ley. Muchos de ellos habían invertido fuertes sumas de dinero en la aventura colonial, y tenían la esperanza de recibir una compensación por sus pérdidas.El artículo 15 del tratado aseguraba más de 398.000 libras esterlinas para que los escoceses respondieran por la deuda pública. En esencia, este dinero fue utilizado en parte para compensar a los inversores del Darién.

El soborno tampoco estuvo de lado, al igual que la persuasión financiera. Cerca de £ 20.000 fueron entregadas al Barón de Glasgow para ser distribuidas entre los parlamentarios. El comisionado parlamentario de la Reina Ana recibió £12.325, la mayor parte del fondo. De este monto gran parte se utilizó para el pago de espías y agentes provocadores.

Esa es la historia de como Escocia fue derribada y ocupada por Inglaterra.

Pero no falta el tipico genocidio ingles en tierras ocupadas:

Highland Clearances - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

With the development of pseudoscientific racist ideas from about 1850, the Clearances were at times supported by belief that the Celtic "race" was inferior to the Anglo Saxon "race".[30] George Combe's popular and influential The Constitution of Man, published in 1828, provided a framework which would be used by some to support theories of racial superiority. In 1850 Robert Knox published "The Races of Men" which asserted the inferiority of the Celt compared to the Anglo Saxon and Nordic races.

Horrible verdad?
 
Primero el NO a la independencia y ahora esto.

Burbumoris agoreros, profetas del hundimiento y separatistas fabuladores owneados una vez más. :XX:
 
Wow, gracias por ilustrarnos.

Mis dies, supongo que entre los analfabetos, los crios de primaria (o Logse) y las charos sera informacion muy valiosa.

Ahora para una persona normal, como ya deberia de saberlo.
 
Pues es una lastima que Escocia no se haya independizado.

Lo importante es tener una buena calidad de vida y tener LIBERTAD. Los estados deberían desaparecer o reducirse a su mínima expresión.
 
Escocia: un país ocupado por Inglaterra o por que la consulta si se justifica

He abierto un hilo sobre Braveheart y la falsedad de la historia, hechos ocurridos a finales del 1200.

Tu respuesta de copy&paste mete un tocho sobre hechos de 1600. Tú mismo demuestras no tener ni fruta idea de lo que estás hablando.
 
¿Cuántas veces os han echado por la TV·catalana la peli? ¿Mil veces por año?
 
¿Cuántas veces os han echado por la TV·catalana la peli? ¿Mil veces por año?

La Historia de Escocia y la de Cataluña no tienen absolutamente nada que ver...pero si se manipula lo suficiente, pues igual acaban siendo iguales.
 
He abierto un hilo sobre Braveheart y la falsedad de la historia, hechos ocurridos a finales del 1200.

Tu respuesta de copy&paste mete un tocho sobre hechos de 1600. Tú mismo demuestras no tener ni fruta idea de lo que estás hablando.

No, tu hilo es una acusación de que nuestra opinón sobre Escocia viene dada a través de una peícula de Hollywood.

Y no es así, ni de coña, yo viví casi un año, por poner un ejemplo.
 
En cualquier caso, la película es la leche. Quizas la mejor película jamas hecha.

Mel Gibson ha sido tratado injustamente por culpa de progres y alubio*s.
 
He abierto un hilo sobre Braveheart y la falsedad de la historia, hechos ocurridos a finales del 1200.

Tu respuesta de copy&paste mete un tocho sobre hechos de 1600. Tú mismo demuestras no tener ni fruta idea de lo que estás hablando.

Bueno, tú hablabas sobre Braveheart y él te ha contestado hablando de Rob Roy... :XX::XX:
 
Última edición:
William Wallace ni siquiera fue llamado Braveheart. Braveheart fue un mote post-mortem dado a Black Douglas, un noble de la generación siguiente de William Wallace que había luchado en las guerras de independencia de Escocia y que recibió del rey Roberto la petición de una vez muerto llevar su corazón al Santo Sepulcro en Jerusalén. Black Douglas se fue a luchar a la cruzada de Almería (una de las guerras periódicas de la frontera granadina) y según dice la leyenda, al verse rodeado lanzó la caja con el corazón del rey antes de morir él y todos los demás caballeros escoceses. De ahí el "braveheart", título que tuvieron sus descendientes y que aparece en su escudo de armas:

Sir_James_Douglas


http://www.burbuja.info/inmobiliaria/historia/546614-braveheart-murio-almeria.html
 
Última edición:
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